Seventy Sevens

[tribulation2008]

Some believe Daniel 9 to be speaking of Christ already fulfilling this in a preterist view. Messiah was cut off after the 69th week, that Jesus fulfilled 3.5 years of that week, and that it concluded when Stephen was stoned and the gospel went to the gentiles.

Some believe Daniel 9 to be speaking about the AC to fulfill a covenant with many in the future and that there is 70th week to be fulfilled.

Who is right?


Maybe both in part. Maybe this prophecy is a dual prophecy.

This prophecy is speaking about "seventy sevens" or "seventy weeks". God has a clock of sevens. Why do we assume the weeks or sevens have to be 7 years? Every 7 years is a sabatical and every 49 years is a jubilee.

If it takes 69 weeks (69*7) to point to Jesus' first coming from an order to rebuild Jerusalem, then could this same prophecy point to Jesus' second coming via 70 jubilees (70*7*7 = 3430 years)? If so, when would the starting point be for the 3430 years or first jubilee?

It would be feasible to assume that when the Israelites entered their land (Canaan) given to them by YHWH, that the seventy sevens clock may have started, or the count down of the 3430 years to the second coming of Christ. In Lev 25:2, YHWH told them to keep a sabbath until Him when they entered their land.

So, what year was that? When did the Israelites enter Canaan? If you know, you may have the year of the second coming!! Or if you know the year of the Exodus, add 40 years for wandering in the wilderness. Please advise!!
Peace

PS. I am not date setting, I am season setting.

PSS. I just noticed this is my 77th post. How freaky is that?

[tribulation2008]

Hey WillyBob, do you have any suggestions for this thread?

[WhiteHorseBerean]

Originally Posted by tribulation2008

Some believe Daniel 9 to be speaking of Christ already fulfilling this in a preterist view. Messiah was cut off after the 69th week, that Jesus fulfilled 3.5 years of that week, and that it concluded when Stephen was stoned and the gospel went to the gentiles.

Some believe Daniel 9 to be speaking about the AC to fulfill a covenant with many in the future and that there is 70th week to be fulfilled.

Who is right?


Maybe both in part. Maybe this prophecy is a dual prophecy.

I disagree with both, but partially agree with the first.

Jesus fulfills the covenant with many. The first 3 1/2 years was already fulfilled and there remains another 3 1/2 years (half a week) to be fulfilled.

[securitymom]

Just for grins, download the excel file at this site:

http://www.copper-scroll-project.com...he-messiah.xls

I don't know if it will help you in your quest, but it is interesting to view.

[willybob]

There is nothing saying the covenant was not continuously running through the 70 weeks. Jesus was cut off in the middle of the 69 th week, the text does not infer a gap between the 69th and 70th week, like the new age Schofield batman comic theology teaches. (all of this new age prophecy for the most part, is nothing more than rapture brain washing. It is intentionaly fabricated to espouse the idea that Christ did not finish his works like HE said he did. This is the crux of the deceit.

. The antichrist has nothing to do with the covenant in Daniel. This is the best study I know on this subject he also has a couple of books in more detail. The fact that the covenant is fullfilled does not negate future prophecy.

Most of the teaching on this subjectare new age designed for the end times deception. Even back as far as the 1st century early church scholars had confirmed the idea that the covenant was fullfilled, and this was common knowledge amongst scholars all the way up to the 19th century. The 19h century was the beginng of the real falling away and Mosonic infiltration into Christianity from the protestant side of the 2 horns. Obviously the Catholics were already leavened for 1500 years.



In the prevailing view of Bible prophecy, the well known passage in Daniel chapter 9 concerning the 70 weeks of Daniel is commonly interpreted to put forth the proposition that the Antichrist will make a 7 year treaty with the Jewish people. But is this proposition actually accurate, and if it is not, what are the implications for the rather large cluster of prophetic interpretations that rest upon this idea of a treaty that will be broken "in the midst of the week?" (Daniel 9:27)

Daniel's 70th week is one of the premier prophetic passages in the entire Bible - but it has been distorted to the point where the interpretation that is popularly offered is so far off from what the text actually says that most believers simply take the interpretation for granted. This traditional interpretation has become so deeply ingrained that study Bibles routinely offer it in their margin notes. Indeed, few people are aware that it is this very text that is the primary passage used to teach the faulty idea of a 7-year tribulation, and the fictional 7-year treaty. The truth is, there is not one verse in the entire Bible that teaches either concept.

The key to Daniel's 70 Week passage is found in the summary of what is to occur during a period described as "70 weeks." That summary occurs in Daniel 9:24:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to

[a] finish the transgression

[b] and to make an end of sins,

[c] and to make reconciliation for iniquity,

[d] and to bring in everlasting righteousness,

[e] and to seal up the vision and prophecy,

[f] and to anoint the most holy."

Various sequential aspects of the prophecy are then detailed, including how long it will be until the coming of "Messiah the prince," and how long His ministry will last. These details are found in verses 25 and 26. Then the prophecy bluntly informs us that after the Messiah has come and gone, an unnamed "people" will come and destroy "the city and the sanctuary." (verse 26)

The last aspect of the prophecy elaborates on the destruction of the sanctuary and the abominations that are to occur. It even describes the reason for the devastation as the text tells us it is "...for the overspreading of abominations [that] he shall make it desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

Once again, it's crucial that we see that Jesus the Messiah is the fulfillment of these prophecies - and the totality of what He accomplishes is in verse 24. One may simply read through the points of verse 24 and ask WHO fulfills each and every aspect of the prophecy? The answer is JESUS CHRIST.

Another way to approach this is to reverse the perspective. Does the Antichrist "finish the transgression?" Of course not. Can it be said that the Beast is the one who will "make an end of sins?" Obviously not. Does the Son of Perdition "make reconciliation for iniquity?" The answer is self-evident. Does the wicked one "seal up the vision and prophecy?" He does not. And does the Antichrist "anoint the most holy?" Of course not.

The focal point of the entire prophecy is JESUS CHRIST. It may also be instructive to recognize that because we are reading this prophecy so many years after its fulfillment we don't fully appreciate the incredible accuracy in it. We need to point out that Daniel's incredible work was written about 550 years before JESUS was born!

It's worth noting that the coming of the Messiah was always the central hope implied in virtually every prophecy. The belief that God would send a Messiah is the great historic longing that existed in almost every historic time period of Israel and Judah. One of the great wonders of this prophecy is that it not only provided precious details about the arrival of the Messiah, it even included a countdown to the events that would lead to His arrival!

Conversely, the Antichrist is never mentioned. There is no mention of a 7-year treaty, nor a 7-year tribulation. All of those understandings have been artificially attached to the prophecy. The central message in this entire prophecy is the arrival of the Messiah, and what will happen once He arrives. Having said that, let's take it chronologically.

The first part of the prophecy, after the summary in verse 24, breaks down the period into separate components. Verse 25 says that "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks." Most prophecy teachers have recognized the 'year for a day' principle in this prophetic language. Under this perspective, each "week" is seen as a seven year period. Thus, the first period of "seven weeks" may accurately be depicted as seven seven-year periods - or 49 years. The second period of "threescore and two weeks" (which is 62 weeks) may be seen as 62 seven-year periods, or 434 years. That totals 69 "weeks" or 483 years - leaving only the third period of one "week" (7 years) for the total of 70 weeks.

What the text is saying is that the commandment to build Jerusalem will trigger three time periods. To offer a rough paraphrase, it's telling us the commandment will be given, then 49 years later something related to the prophecy will happen. Then a period of 434 years will elapse, and then the Messiah will arrive. The last period of 7 years will then elapse. A characterization of the first portion of the prophecy is added when the text tells us the time when the sanctuary is to be rebuilt will be "troublous."

Textual evidence in the historical books of Nehemiah and Ezra suggest that it took about 49 years to rebuild the wall and the temple after the command to construct them was given by the Persian king Cyrus: "Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah." (Ezra 1:2).

After the initial building period of 49 years elapsed, the second period of 434 years went by with almost nothing occurring that was related to the messianic expectation. This second period is the period between the last book of the Old Testament (Malachi) and the coming of Jesus Christ - and it turns out to be 434 years!

It is at this point that the gigantic error is made in the prophetic interpretation - and it changes the meaning of almost everything. Because the prophecy is broken up into 3 period (49 years, 434 years, and 7 years), prophecy interpreters claim that the prophecy was "suspended" after the Messiah arrived, and the last 7 year period, which they identify as the tribulation, was pushed far into the future. They then say the Antichrist will emerge and inaugurate that last 7-year period. The problem is, the text never actually says any of that, nor does it even infer a gap between the 69th and 70th week.

The Messiah arrives after the 2nd period of 434 years (62 weeks in the text). There is no reason to believe the unfolding of the timeline stops at that point. Thus, the Messiah arrives at the beginning of the 70th week and it commenced when He arrived. Remember, the focus of the prophecy is on the Messiah who must accomplish everything specified within the 70-week period.

After the Messiah arrives, the text simply continues with the chronological description: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...." (Daniel 9:26) This verse is simply saying that after the second period of 434 years (the 62 weeks) has gone by, the Messiah is to be "cut off." It then continues the chronological statement from the point of the 'cutting off' and says that at some unspecified time after the Messiah is cut off, "the city and the sanctuary" will be destroyed.

In the next verse, the prophecy provides us with the details of the cutting off of the Saviour. Again, the focal point of the entire prophecy is the Messiah, so after He arrives, "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week...." (Daniel 9:27) This is precisely what would be expected as when He arrived, there would be "one week" left to the 70 weeks. The obvious question should be how can the Antichrist suddenly get inserted into this prophecy and "confirm" a covenant that has never been mentioned? Indeed, the Antichrist himself has never been mentioned in the entire text!

Furthermore, it's useful to recognize that the term covenant is not the same term as the word treaty. We separate the Bible into the Old Testament and the New Testament, and the word "testament" is interchangeable with the term covenant (see Hebrews 9:15). On the other hand, a treaty is a political instrument that is used between nations - not a sacred agreement between God and man.

In the Old Testament, God made an agreement with man that if the people will adhere to His "covenant," He will protect and keep them and be their God. This is articulated in Exodus with the children of Israel where God says "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people...." (Exodus 19:5). In the very passage in question in Daniel, which is prophetic on its face, God further promises that He will bring the Messiah who will confirm the covenant that He has already made.

Although it is a new covenant in that it brings out certain characteristics that were somewhat veiled in the Old Testament, because it is a covenant with Israel, it is actually a renewal of the covenant that God made through Moses. Thus in Jeremiah, God says "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel...." (Jeremiah 31:31)

Therefore, about 50 years after God promised to Jeremiah that He would remember Israel with another covenant that will build upon the existing covenant, He tells Daniel that "the Messiah the Prince...shall confirm the covenant with many...." (Daniel 9:25, 27).

The New Testament writers recognized this as the Apostle Paul explicitly wrote on the subject when he stated "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after...." (Galatians 3:17) Through this confirmation, we learn that Christ is the heir of all the promises. He is the Seed of Abraham upon whom the blessings are bestowed, and He is the only one who "brings in everlasting righteousness." (Daniel 9:2).

The twist on the truth that has come to dominate the prophetic expectations of so many millions will reap a bitter harvest. As vast numbers of Christians are deceived on this subject, their lives and actions are predicated on a false understanding of the immediate future - and the fruit of it will be dreadful. Very few understand the enormous spiritual ramifications of embracing significant error in our prophetic perspective. Indeed, it was the fact that Israel did not recognize the time of their visitation from God that brought the nation of Israel to "the overspreading of abominations" that were the natural outgrowth of their refusal to recognize Jesus as their promised Messiah.

Literally millions upon millions of believers are now similarly deceived in that the person explicitly described in the scriptures as the MESSIAH is actually seen as the Antichrist. Our Saviour told the Pharisees that attributing the works of God to the Devil was the unpardonable sin (Matthew 12:31). The blind religious leaders of yesteryear claimed the person doing the miracles in their presence was actually a vessel of the Devil. The truth was, that person was Jesus Christ and the Jewish leaders committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in their refusal to recognize Jesus was the individual prophesied of in Daniel 9:27.

How is it any different when the modern day Pharisees, the denominational Christians of our time, are now claiming these magnificent prophecies apply to the Antichrist, when the exact opposite is true as these words testify of the awesome truth of "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ?" (Titus 2:13) As the import of this great truth sinks in, it affects practically everything - including the actual identity of the chosen people, our individual standing in Christ, and the immediate future of America in a prophetic context.

The very fact that most "believers" will simply discard this pointed exegesis testifies that it is the organized churches that have perpetrated the great fraud that Christendom finds herself entangled in. And because of their lazy refusal to study the truth of the scriptures on a personal level - instead relying upon the false doctrines of their hireling shepherds - we will shortly see the big surprise in which so many that thought they were saved will be turned away. The scriptures will not be broken, and they tell us it is "for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience." (Colossians 3:6)

April 21, 2003 - James Lloyd

Copyright © 2003 Christian Media Network

See Also

The 70 Weeks Of Daniel Book

The 70 Weeks Of Daniel Audio

Translation Of Israel

The Remnant In Romans

[sharruken]

The author makes this interesting statement:

Thus, the Messiah arrives at the beginning of the 70th week and it commenced when He arrived. Remember, the focus of the prophecy is on the Messiah who must accomplish everything specified within the 70-week period.

After the Messiah arrives, the text simply continues with the chronological description:

Unfortunately, the author does not bother to diagram the last seven years of the prophecy folllowing Messiah's arrival. Would someone be so kind as to show me how this all plays out??

I'm not sure I can agree with his reasoning, but would like to at least fully understand his thoughts.

Thank you in advance.

Your brother..... Lance

[securitymom]

Originally Posted by sharruken

The author makes this interesting statement:

Thus, the Messiah arrives at the beginning of the 70th week and it commenced when He arrived. Remember, the focus of the prophecy is on the Messiah who must accomplish everything specified within the 70-week period.

After the Messiah arrives, the text simply continues with the chronological description:

Unfortunately, the author does not bother to diagram the last seven years of the prophecy following Messiah's arrival. Would someone be so kind as to show me how this all plays out??

I'm not sure I can agree with his reasoning, but would like to at least fully understand his thoughts.

Thank you in advance.

Your brother..... Lance

This is not my expertise, but I did come across a teaching about this very thing last summer. First though, I have a problem with the claim underlined above. Assuming the author's premise is correct, the 70th week certainly did not start with the birth of Christ, which is exactly how an average person would understand that statement.

But that aside, let me share some of the teaching I found. It is by Pastor Tom McElmurry at http://tribulationperiod.com/blog/

He shares the assessment that the "He" in Daniel is Jesus Christ and not the Antichrist. He actually gave a 9-part series he wrote on this, but it was very repetitive so I have tried to boil it down to the essential facts he wrote. I am not saying it is totally correct, but it offers thoughts for discussion. I will fit what I can on this post and continue on another post as needed.

BEGIN

Since I hold to the prophetic interpretation all the publications prior to 1760 put forth concerning the “he” in Daniel 9:27, I am concerned that a lot of believers are going to be in shock when tribulation suddenly begins to occur without a prolonged period of an antichrist arising in Europe, without a written peace treaty that lasts three and one half years, and without a lot of other prophetic interpretations by TV prophetic experts which give the impression we have a long time before fearful things begin to happen. I am concerned about this to the extent that I am going to repeat what I believe about Daniel’s Prophecy of the 70 Weeks of Years. I hope you will consider it, even if you don’t believe it. If it is correct, then it would be beneficial to you when it happened.

...By 1800 the Evangelical Movement had spread to the Church of England. Within the Evangelical Movement a different viewpoint arose in the teaching of Prophecy, particularly in the interpretation of Daniel 9:27. I have diligently searched for any commentary published before 1740 that indicated the three “HE’S” in Daniel 9:27 were the antichrist, and have not found a single one. I am not saying one does not exist, but I have been looking for years, and have never found one. All publications before 1740 clearly identified the three “HE’S” as Jesus Christ, “the Messiah the Prince.” It has stunned me as to how much of our teaching today about the antichrist is all tied back to the belief that the antichrist is the one referred to in Daniel 9:27. I beg of you to take a good look at the series on the 70 Weeks of Daniel exposition I am now presenting in 10 parts. Even if you think it is hogwash, please carefully read Parts 1 through 10. If it is correct, it will help you to understand what is going on when the coming antichrist does not follow the pattern currently taught in most religious circles. If it is wrong, it will have done you no harm, but please read it. I have no ulterior motive for gain in presenting it to you. My motive is a simple one. I am an old man who is seven years past his allotted threescore and ten years, and I am very concerned that many are going to be confused when prophetic events suddenly conclude in a manner quite different from what they expect. For better or for worse, I believe the religious world took a wrong turn in prophetic teaching in 1740, and that many believe what is erroneously tied back to antichrist representing the three “HE’S” in Daniel 9:27.

Daniel 9:27 – And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week HE shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations HE shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I fully exposited on Daniel 9:24 in our AM Blog on June 20, establishing how Daniel had learned, from Jeremiah’s writings, that seventy weeks of years were determined upon the people of Israel and their holy city Jerusalem. Under Daniel’s formulation for the period, each one of Jeremiah’s seventy years was equal to seven years, and he identified each seven year period as one week of years (So 7 X 70 = 490 years or 70 weeks of years). In Daniel 9:25 he gives us a starting point for his prophetic clock to begin ticking toward a countdown of 490 years or 70 weeks of years.

Daniel 9:25 – Know therefore and understand, that FROM the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem UNTO the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The 490 year time clock would start ticking when “the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem” was issued. However, there were four different proclamations issued by three Persian kings:

1. The Decree of Cyrus in 536 B.C.
2. The Decree of Darius Hystaspes in 519 B.C.
3. The first Decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus in 457 B.C.
4. The second Decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus in 445 B.C.

The Scripture indicated that FROM the time the commandment (decree) was issued UNTIL the Messiah the Prince arrived, would be 69 weeks of years or 483 years (7 weeks + 62 weeks = 69 weeks of years) ( 7 X 69 = 483 years)
Now, some problems arise in the establishment of historical dates that begin at “FROM” and end at “UNTIL” – Are these prophetic years or calendar years? – How are they affected by corrections to the Gentile calendars by Rome? – And how are they affected by the lunar calendar used by the Hebrews? All these things make it difficult to decide which one of the four decrees applies to Daniel 9:25. Was Daniel indicating solar years of 365.25 days or prophetic lunar years of 360 days? Most likely he meant years of 360 days.

Which one of the four decrees was the one that Daniel indicated in his prophecy? The decree of Cyrus in 536 B.C. was limited to the building of the Temple. The decree of Darius Hystaspes was also limited to the building of the Temple. The first decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus in 457 B.C. demonstrated a larger range of granting authority to carry out all that needed to be done, much more than the two decrees before it. His second decree in 445 B.C. is also very specific in its instruction and authority to rebuild Jerusalem. So, we are able, because of the lack of reference “to restore and to build Jerusalem” in the first two decrees, to say that it must be one of the two issued by Artaxerxes Longimanus in 457 B. C. and 445 B.C.

I believe it was 483 years “FROM” the decree “UNTO” the baptism of Jesus, when he began His earthly ministry. I accept it by faith in God’s word. The problem is not with the Word of God, it is with the human setting of the time of the proper decree.

Daniel 9:25,26A – Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [26] And AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

(The 7 weeks is understood in Hebrew literary style to also be added to the 62 in verse 26 so as to avoid redundancy in a flowing chronological sequence of events, i.e. AFTER 69 weeks. Otherwise, Messiah would have been cut off before he was born.)

The Hebrew word used for “AFTER” is “ACHAR,” which means, in context, “AFTERWARD.” This same word “ACHAR” is used in the following Scriptures.

Jeremiah 31:33 – But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; AFTER those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Joel 2:28 – And it shall come to pass AFTERWARD, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Hosea 3:5 – AFTERWARD shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.

Hosea 6:2 – AFTER two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

The vast majority of prophetic expositors today claim that Messiah was cut off, crucified, to END the 69th week, bringing the hands of Daniel’s clock to a standstill, and that we have a full week of seven years waiting to be fulfilled when it begins to tick again, but that cannot be true since Christ was crucified AFTER the 69th week during the 70th week, leaving less than seven years to be fulfilled.

The significance of the placement of “AFTER” in Daniel 9:26A cannot be overemphasized. Why? Because it definitely states that Messiah would not be cut off to END the 69th week, but would be crucified “AFTER” it, at some time in the 70th week. The clock of Daniel stopped ticking at some time in the final 70th week. So when was Jesus cut off by crucifixion in the 70th week? The answer is of the utmost importance. I know we have less than seven years once the clock starts to tick again, but how much less do we have? It has to be less than 2520 days, but more than 1260 days?

[securitymom]

CONTINUED

Daniel 9:24-27 – Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [26] And AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The SUBJECT of this entire discourse in Daniel is not “the people of the prince that shall come,” nor is it “the prince that shall come.” They are both subordinate to the subject. The contextual subject of these four verses can only be the Messiah the Prince, who is Jesus, the anointed holy one, the Christ of the living God.

It was generally accepted that Jesus began the confirmation of the Abrahamic covenant by offering the Davidic Kingdom promise to the nation of Israel. He began to offer it to them after his baptism by John. His baptism marked the beginning of the 70th week. We know that his offering of the Kingdom lasted more than three years, but less than three and one-half. So he was cut off (crucified) in the MIDST of the final 70th week. In reality, we are not waiting for the 70th week to start, we are actually waiting for the later part of it to be fulfilled.

Jesus arrived as the Messiah the Prince, and was baptized by John 483 prophetic years after one of the decrees of Artaxerxes Longimanus. His Father’s approval at his baptism marks the beginning of his ministry of three plus years.

John was preaching that the Messiah was coming to bring in the Kingdom of David, which would confirm the Abrahamic seed covenant. Then Jesus came to him, and John identified him as the Messiah. Then, when John was imprisoned by Herod, Jesus began to preach the same message of the Davidic Kingdom.

Christ came to fulfill the Davidic Covenant as the Son of David and the seed of Abraham through the virgin Mary, the daughter of Heli. Mary had a double lineage from David through the man Zerubbabel, whose lineage on both sides was from David.

Then the covenant was expanded through God’s mercies to David to all the nations. The covenant of Daniel 9:27 was first confirmed, and then fulfilled by Jesus Christ, the Messiah. It is the kingdom covenant found two chapters before 9:27.

Malachi 3:1, 2 – Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of THE COVENANT, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. [2] But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:

John was the messenger of the Messiah, and Jesus was the Messiah, the messenger of THE COVENANT.

And this is THE COVENANT Jesus confirmed for seven years, but was cut off in the MIDST of the seven years, between the third and fourth year.

Jesus completed more than three years into the fourth week, and was crucified to eternally confirm the sacrifice of sinless blood and flesh for the sins of all who will receive him. His final cleansing of the temple in righteous indignation against a nation that had turned His Father’s house into a house of merchandise, rather than a holy house of prayer, was the final “overspreading of abominations” that made it spiritually “desolate” toward God. Messiah’s act caused God to abruptly “cease” honoring their “sacrifices and oblations” until the consummation of this present age, at which time those desolate of God’s Spirit, because of unbelief, will experience a time of trouble like man has never known.

As you have observed, I do not believe we have a full week of years left in Daniel’s final 70th week. So how much time do we have left when Daniel’s clock starts ticking again? The Israelis will begin to think they finally have “peace and safety,” and Daniel’s clock will soon begin to tick again for Israel and Jerusalem.

We know that Jesus, from his baptism, had a ministry of more than three prophetic years (1080 days), but that it fell short of three and one-half prophetic years (1260 days). He was “cut off” at some point in the “midst” of the seven prophetic years, that is, in the “midst” of the fourth year. We know that Christ’s first Passover after his baptism is found in John 2:13, his second in John 5:1, his third in John 6:4, and his fourth in John 13:1. So that accounts for three prophetic years totaling 1080 days.

Now, let’s look back at the time that expired from his baptism to his first Passover. First, he was tempted for forty days. After that he called his first disciples ((John 1:35-51), performed his first miracle in Cana (John 2:1-12), had his first stay in Capernaum (John 2:12), and then traveled to his first Passover in Jerusalem (John 2:13). I contend this probably took 65 days. And this, when added to the 40 days of temptation, totals 105 days. And this, added to the 1080 days between the Passovers, gives us 1185 days, which linguistically qualifies as being in the “midst” of Daniel’s 70th week in the fourth year. So I contend that Jesus Christ, the Messiah the Prince, has already fulfilled the first 1185 days of the last week of Daniel 9:27, and that instead of 2520 days remaining, we only have 1335 days left to be fulfilled. When Daniel’s clock begins to tick again to finally complete the Age of the Gentiles and Daniel’s 70th week, it will only have to tick for 1335 days.

Daniel’s prophetic clock stopped ticking when Messiah was crucified. Messiah started confirming the seven year covenant at the time of his baptism, fulfilling promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David in the final 70th week. But he was cut off (crucified) after finishing 1185 of the final 2520 prophetic days. At this point the clock stopped when he made the temple spiritually desolate, thereby causing the acceptance of the sacrifice and the oblation to cease being acceptable to God. And it will continue to be so until the consummation of this age when he returns and, at that time, the spiritually desolate will have his wrath poured upon them.

Once Daniel’s clock begins to tick again it will be as if it never stopped. It will start to tick when the Israelis believe they have peace and safety. From the time it begins to tick, until it closes Daniel’s 70th week, with its final tick at the end of the battle of Armageddon, will be 1335 prophetic days. It will be 1290 days after it starts to tick that the Abomination of Desolation appears on the Temple Mount. It will be about 75 days after it begins to tick that Israel will be attacked by a confederation of Islamic nations that were once a part of the old Roman Empire. I believe the seven vials of God’s wrath will be poured out on the earth during the 45 day period that occurs between the 1290th day, when the Abomination of Desolation is set up, and the coming of Christ with the saints on the 1335th day. The initial attack of the antichrist, 75 days after peace comes, will drive Israel into the wilderness for the remaining 1260 days left in the 1335 days.

I have not been able to find a single commentary, published prior to 1740, that identified the three “HE’s” of Daniel 9:27 as the future antichrist, which the world is expecting soon to arise. So the question I poise is a simple one – Were all prophetic teachers wrong before 1740? And if they were right, how does that affect what is taught today? Is there a radical difference?

What are some of the ramifications to prophetic teaching today if the “HE’s” in Daniel 9:27 are not the future antichrist? Are the changes drastic? Yes, indeed they are! What are some of them?

1. We would not have to have a peace treaty signed between antichrist and Israel.
2. The antichrist would not have to be a Jew.
3. The antichrist would not have to be a Roman prince or come out of Europe.
4. We would not have seven full years left to be fulfilled in Daniel’s prophecy of 490 years.
5. There would not be TWO 1260 periods left to be fulfilled in the tribulation period.
6. The antichrist could strike suddenly without three and one half years of peace occurring, leaving only 1260 days before Armageddon would end the tribulation period.
7. The temple would not have to be rebuilt for the antichrist to occupy prior to Christ’s coming for his saints.
8. The “first of the week” rapture position, seven years before the 2nd Advent, would not be correct.
9. Is it possible that the following Scripture could be applicable to some aspects of today’s teachings based on Daniel 9:27?

II Timothy 4:3, 4 – For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

END

I highlighted areas I thought would be worthy of discussion. Does anyone think he is onto something here?

[willybob]

Originally Posted by sharruken

The author makes this interesting statement:

Thus, the Messiah arrives at the beginning of the 70th week and it commenced when He arrived. Remember, the focus of the prophecy is on the Messiah who must accomplish everything specified within the 70-week period.

After the Messiah arrives, the text simply continues with the chronological description:

Unfortunately, the author does not bother to diagram the last seven years of the prophecy folllowing Messiah's arrival. Would someone be so kind as to show me how this all plays out??

I'm not sure I can agree with his reasoning, but would like to at least fully understand his thoughts.

Thank you in advance.

Your brother..... Lance

The largest error is placing "antichrist" into the text of Daniel 9, which is patently false. When you remove that we are left with the 70 weeks prophecy of Messiah:

There is nothing in scripture that would indicate the the 70 weeks has a pause then starts again.



I think the 3 1/2 missing years is John the Baptist. Here is some additional work done on James work.

I. Seven weeks, that is, forty-nine years.

II. Sixty-two weeks, that is, four hundred and thirty-four years.

III. One week, that is, seven years.

To the first period of seven weeks the restoration and repairing of Jerusalem are referred; and so long were Ezra and Nehemiah employed in restoring the sacred constitutions and civil establishments of the Jews, for this work lasted forty-nine years after the commission was given by Artaxerxes.

From the above seven weeks the second period of sixty-two weeks, or four hundred and thirty-four years more, commences, at the end of which the prophecy says, Messiah the Prince should come, that is, seven weeks, or forty-nine years, should be allowed for the restoration of the Jewish state; from which time till the public entrance of the Messiah on the work of the ministry should be sixty-two weeks, or four hundred and thirty-four years, in all four hundred and eighty-three years.

From the coming of our Lord, the third period is to be dated, viz., "He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week," that is seven years, Da 9:27.

This confirmation of the covenant must take in the ministry of John the Baptist with that of our Lord, comprehending the term of seven years, during the whole of which he might be well said to confirm or ratify the new covenant with mankind. Our Lord says, "The law was until John;" but from his first public preaching the kingdom of God, or Gospel dispensation, commenced.

These seven years, added to the four hundred and eighty-three, complete the four hundred and ninety years, or seventy prophetic weeks; so that the whole of this prophecy, from the times and corresponding events, has been fulfilled to the very letter.)

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. {but...: or, and shall have nothing} {desolations...: or, it shall be cut off by desolations}

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.")






If we take the Historicist approach, that this applies to the period from the crucifixion to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., then we are left with a fulfillment of the seventy weeks. This is also affirmed by Christ in Matthew 24:15-"15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"

Our view toward a futurist prophetic fulfillment lies in the Book of Revelation, which consolidates the Daniel 9 prophecies with Daniel 11 and 12, with Ezekiel and Zechariah, among other. Revelation, written after the fall of Jerusalem, restates many of the prophetic themes used in Daniel and by Christ at the Olivet, in a futurist fulfillment, thus the layered approach to end time prophecy which James Lloyd and others, as well as ourselves attribute to the tribulation and end of days.

This goes back to the "Third Day" studies, which employ the apocalyptic/metaphoric terms extended into the period which we believe is now occurring. What is absent in this time line is a single starting point that is understandable. This was the purpose of the LORD's Calendar---to attempt to plot a time line, or series of time lines that gave us some clue as to when these events commence.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Here, Luke points toward this future layer in his narrative, and gives us a key to the condition of humanity that is critical: distress of nations, with perplexity. The term "perplexity" means "entanglement, bewilderment, or confusion."
Confusion leads us back to Babel (literally "Place of Confusion"). Daniel 12 points to this period:

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

While Daniel is instructed to: (verse 4) "shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:" and John is likewise told: (Revelation 10:4)"Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.", we see the unveiling will occur: Revelation 10:7- "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." This agrees with:

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

So we are absent a concrete time line because we are in the times of the MYSTERY of God, which will be revealed prophetically, as He told John in the concluding verses of Revelation:

Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

The MYSTERY---"His Secret"---is the key to understanding times and seasons, not a concrete time line. This is the Spiritual Overlay. Old Israel operated in the PHYSICAL , linear constraints of time/space. New Israel (what is called, euphemistically, the Church) is SPIRITUAL and operates in the realm outside the space/time continuum in the Mystery of Christ:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

There are TWO Mysteries: the Mystery of Christ and the "mystery if iniquity" (2Thess.2:7), or MYSTERY BABYLON (Revelation 17). The dividing of times spoken of by Daniel:


Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

speaks to the dividing of God's people as is clearly broken out in the succeeding verses:

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

We are not operating in the linear concrete time lines, which are the very time lines the spirit of antichrist seeks to corrupt. This why we lack discernible "land marks" in the prophetic continuum. We are moving into eternity---timelessness---where we reckon BY the Spirit of God, not the linear clockwork of a changing universe. The Mystery of Christ, which was revealed to the apostles, notably Paul and John, is the means by which we reckon our current arc toward the end of the age.

[willybob]

Quote
Mary had a double lineage from David through the man Zerubbabel, whose lineage on both sides was from David.

Where in the world did this idea come from.




Step father Josephs generations are in Matthew ch 1 concerning Zorobabel

Matthew 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
Matthew 1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
Luke 3:27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,


Mary seed line up to her Father father Heli

LUKE ch 3
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,


25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,


26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,


27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,


28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,


29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,


30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,


31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,


Bill