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Old 01-25-2010, 01:56 PM
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Gabrielle Gabrielle is offline
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Default Satan's name before he fell

Has anyone heard the theory that Satan's name was Lucifer, which means light bearer before he was cast out of heaven. . Isaiah 14:12"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"-is the only reference to this, every other place he was called Satan.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:00 PM
Gideon Gideon is offline
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I think I'm going to run away from this one. Yikes!!!
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:04 PM
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This outline will clearly show that the NIV deceitfully manipulates the Hebrew definition of "heylel" to be defined as "morning star." The Book of Job clearly proves the error in the NIV. The definition of Satan does not define him as a "morning star." Morning Star is Jesus Christ. Lucifer was Satan's name when he was in heaven, "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." ---Ezekiel 28:15 The Hebrew word for "morning star" is boqer kowkab. Even the New Testament parallels Isaiah 14:12!
NIV: Isaiah 14:12 "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"

KJV: Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

SCRIPTURAL PROOF
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From
going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlastingchains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every
god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the
beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their
multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:05 PM
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Gabrielle Gabrielle is offline
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Satan's Fall:
Ezekiel 28:[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
[18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
[19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (even the New Testament parallels Isaiah 14:12 and confirms that the KJV is correct.) Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

How many angels were cast out with Satan? ONE THIRD.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:


Going into the Masoretic Hebrew text, in Isaiah 14:12..... O Lucifer[01966](heylel), son[01121](ben) of the morning[07837](shachar)

Using Strongs concordance and the lexicon

01966 heylel {hay-lale'}

from 01984 (in the sense of brightness); TWOT - 499a; n m

AV - Lucifer 1; 1

Lucifer = "light-bearer"
1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer
1a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
2) (TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon

Whenever you change a word using dynamic equivalence there must be EXTREME care to maintain the integrity of the verse. One can commit blasphemy of the LORD unknowingly without doing careful study.
Referring to the Book of Job, which was written long long before the Book of Isaiah was written, the point for this discussion specifically outlines that the Hebrew word for "morning star" existed long before Isaiah. Strong's #01966 Lucifer occurs ONCE in the entire Old Testament. Once. The words morning star are used throughout the both the Old and New Testament. The uniqueness of Isaiah 14:12 is that Lucifer WAS his name, then became Satan when he fell.

Job 38:7 When the morning[01242] stars[03556] sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now, looking at the HEBREW. When the morning[01242] (boqer) stars[03556] (kowkab)

The plural Hebrew words for "morning star" are 'boqer kowkab.' BIG BIG DIFFERENCE from "Lucifer" (01966 heylel {hay-lale'}). Do you see the difference yet? Correct me here if I am wrong.

Now, refer to the Book of Job again....

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and SATAN[07854] came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and SATAN[07854] (satan) came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

07854 satan {saw-tawn'}

from 07853; TWOT - 2252a; n m

AV - Satan 19, adversary 7, withstand 1; 27

1) adversary, one who withstands
1a) adversary (in general - personal or national)
2) superhuman adversary
2a) Satan (as noun pr)

Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not
known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have [already
Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have [already] hold fast till I come.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even
as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him THE MORNING{3720} STAR{792}.

Revelation 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

And also here in chapter 22:

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, THE BEGINNING AND THE END, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter
in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and
whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the
offspring of David, [and] the bright and MORNING{3720} STAR{792}.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw A STAR{792}aster {as-tare'} fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him
was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Most obvious from Revelation 22:16 that references Jesus Christ and noting the DIFFERENCE in Revelation 9:1 when noting the Greek word 'star' which is "aster" in Greek.

CONCLUSION: The NIV purposefully and willfully used an inaccurate name for Lucifer by changing the Hebrew word 01966 heylel for "Morning Star." That is blasphemy.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:07 PM
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Gabrielle Gabrielle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
I think I'm going to run away from this one. Yikes!!!
actually i came across this article when looking up NIV discrepancies in the bible where they call Satan the morning star. Im not saying i agree with the article, i have 2 do more research, but it does raise questions. I can't imagine his name being satan when he was with God in heaven considering the meaning of the word or name.. Therefore, it must have been something else, unless there are angels who are nameless, but if he was held at such a high position in heaven, i don't see that either.

Last edited by Gabrielle; 01-25-2010 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:15 PM
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Very good message Gabriel. This is all West Cott Hort trnaslations which moved in the 19th century. No copy rights on the KJV. Satan has used copy rights as a tool to decieve.

Bill
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:42 PM
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Gabrielle Gabrielle is offline
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This article is called"NIV COMMITS BLASPHEMY AGAIN" What is ironic is Lara had posted a youtube from a young woman, named Millie, a while ago whose videos i have been watching ever since. She said she had a dream of a beautiful angel whom she knew was the Devil, and he asked her, "Do you know who i am?" and she said "Lucifer" and he got very angry, and said "No, im the morning star." i could neva figure that out, but im thinking he did not want 2be referred to as his original name, and since he is the Father of lies and thought he could be equal to God, he liked to consider himself the morning star cuz that is Christ title.

Last edited by Gabrielle; 01-25-2010 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Gideon Gideon is offline
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All right, I can't help myself so I'll make a comment.

Things get more confusing when you believe a lie to begin with. It's like trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle with peices from different boxes. So you look in more boxes to find peices that fit, until eventually you come up with something you think resembles the truth.

It can be considered blasphemy as well to consider "lucifer" a name. "Lucifer" is a Latin word to describe something extremely bright. Burning phosphorous, or bright morning star is referred to as well. In older bibles, it was spelled with a small "L". That's because it's an adjective, not a noun. If you've seen the bright flashes from a welder's stick, it resembles a bright flickering star, except the stars are millions of light years away, so they don't hurt your eyes.

The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew. So, the original error during the translation into English was in using a Latin word, and not an English one. I suppose they couldn't find a single English word equivalent to the Hebrew word. At the very least, "lucifer" should have been used with a notation. Perhaps a notation was used in the past, but it got left out in latter prints, adding to the confusion. The word "lucifer" is never used in the Bible again, and there's no real mystery as to why.

Last edited by Gideon; 01-25-2010 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:21 PM
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Gabrielle Gabrielle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
All right, I can't help myself so I'll make a comment.

Things get more confusing when you believe a lie to begin with. It's like trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle with peices from different boxes. So you look in more boxes to find peices that fit, until eventually you come up with something you think resembles the truth.

It can be considered blasphemy as well to consider "lucifer" a name. "Lucifer" is a Latin word to describe something extremely bright. Burning phosphorous, or bright morning star is referred to as well. In older bibles, it was spelled with a small "L". That's because it's an adjective, not a noun. If you've seen the bright flashes from a welder's stick, it resembles a bright flickering star, except the stars are millions of light years away, so they don't hurt your eyes.

The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew. So, the original error during the translation into English was in using a Latin word, and not an English one. I suppose they couldn't find a single English word equivalent to the Hebrew word. At the very least, "lucifer" should have been used with a notation. Perhaps a notation was used in the past, but it got left out in latter prints, adding to the confusion. The word "lucifer" is never used in the Bible again, and there's no real mystery as to why.
Thanks Gideon for your input. But do you think he had another name previously before his fall? That means a lot of people blasphemy because many people call Satan, Lucifer. Is that a salvation issue?? I don't think so.

Last edited by Gabrielle; 01-25-2010 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:37 PM
Gideon Gideon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielle View Post
Thanks Gideon for your input. But do you think he had another name previously before his fall? That means a lot of people blasphemy because many people call Satan, Lucifer. Is that a salvation issue?? I don't think so.
My understanding of the Word is that Satan never fell. He was always Satan.

John 8:44- "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Isaiah 54:16- "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy."

Colossians 1:16- "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

Thrones, dominions, principalities and powers refer to the demonic kingdom. The Lord is not a victim of a renegade angel. He's in control of everything.

I wouldn't necessarily consider calling Satan "lucifer" a blasphemy. Just a misunderstanding.
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