The Watchman's Cry  

Go Back   The Watchman's Cry > Fellowship Hall > Biblical Matters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-26-2010, 08:09 AM
Gabrielle's Avatar
Gabrielle Gabrielle is offline
Senior Member--Formerly known as Sahran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,966
Default Who is ezekiel 28 13-16 talking about??

EZEKIEL 28:13-1612 Son of Man , take up a lamentation upon the king of Ty'rus and say unto him, THus saith the Lord God, thou sealest up he sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty,
13 THOU has been in Eden , the garden of God, every precious stone was they covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamone, the beryl the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold; the workmanship of thy tabrets, and of they pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created
14:Thou art the annointed cherub that covereth; and i have set thee so, thou was on the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15:THou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee
16: by the multitude of they merchandise they have filled the midst of the with violence, and thou as sinned; therefore, i will cast thee as profane out of the moiuntain of God, and i will destroy thee, o covering cherbub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Now i know he said initially its a man, King of tyrus but the verse, "the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created" Calling him "an annointed cherub" "walked down in the midst of stones of fire" Is this still talking about the man using symbols, satan, is he comparing him to Satan-very confusing. Any thoughts/??
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-26-2010, 08:18 AM
willybob's Avatar
willybob willybob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,917
Default

Lucifer


I think if I remember correctly the 2nd half of chapter 28 is about Lucifer

and the 1st half is about his earthly similtude Solomon,

There stories are almost identical.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-26-2010, 08:56 AM
lounewton's Avatar
lounewton lounewton is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,189
Default

Gabrielle,

You have asked a good question about this scripture:

New International Version (NIV)


12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

God is speaking about the King of Tyre. But while speaking against this king, God compares this King of Tyre to Satan.

So the passage is to the King of Tyre, but compares the King to Satan. So Satan is spoke about in this passage to the king of Tyre.

Grace to you. - Lou Newton
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-26-2010, 10:31 AM
Gideon Gideon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielle View Post
EZEKIEL 28:13-1612 Son of Man , take up a lamentation upon the king of Ty'rus and say unto him, THus saith the Lord God, thou sealest up he sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty,
13 THOU has been in Eden , the garden of God, every precious stone was they covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamone, the beryl the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold; the workmanship of thy tabrets, and of they pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created
14:Thou art the annointed cherub that covereth; and i have set thee so, thou was on the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15:THou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee
16: by the multitude of they merchandise they have filled the midst of the with violence, and thou as sinned; therefore, i will cast thee as profane out of the moiuntain of God, and i will destroy thee, o covering cherbub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Now i know he said initially its a man, King of tyrus but the verse, "the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created" Calling him "an annointed cherub" "walked down in the midst of stones of fire" Is this still talking about the man using symbols, satan, is he comparing him to Satan-very confusing. Any thoughts/??

Let's examine this scripture. There has been some discussion in the past concerning the scripture addressing the King of Tyrus. Another scripture says Prince of Tyrus. I find this to be irrelevant, since a person can carry multiple titles. One can overthrow a kingdom and become it's king, but a prince indicates being born and raised in a kingdom, or that he was present when the kingdom was formed. I myself am a husband, a father, a brother, cousin and son. Doesn't matter what you call me, I'm still the same person.

We know that there were only 2 entities in the Garden- Adam (Eve) and the Serpent (Satan). Therefore, only these two can (or should) be considered in this scripture.

Was Adam created perfect? Yes. Absolutely. He was a magnificent being. Perfect in body and spirit. His flesh was subject to his spirit and he was able to do amazing things with free access and communication in the spirit realm. Imagine not even taking notice that he was naked... There must have been more important things to be preoccupied with, to say the least.

Was Satan created perfect? No. Mark 8:44 says he never abode in the truth. Isaiah 54:16 says God created him for a specific purpose, and that purpose was to destroy. God is the judge and Satan is the executioner. If you read the Book of Job, it is quite apparent that Satan and God have an employee-employer relationship. Nevertheless, Satan is still God's adversary.

The word "cherub" in verse 14 has multiple meanings, which includes "innocent", "child-like", "angelic" and "celestial". The meaning of celestial includes being an inhabitant of heaven, or having the ability to travel to heaven. Could this be Adam? Absolutely! Adam had open communication with God. The Apostle John wrote Revelations while he was in the spirit. Could it be Satan?... Maybe, but there is no direct scripture to justify this point of view. And, as far as I know, only men and women are annointed. Angels are given innate powers and abilities to function in a certain capacity. (We can talk about the angels that left their first estate later).

Again, in verse 15, the subject was created perfect until iniquity was found in him. To my understanding, only man can have iniquity to pass down to their children. There's no evidence Satan can even procreate. Satan didn't pass iniquity down to Adam and Eve. He deceived them so they would sin, allowing iniquity to be formed to corrupt their bodies and spirits.

In verse 16, God refers to the subject as a "covering cherub".

Question: Who was given the duty to keep and protect the garden? Who was given the responsibility to be a covering over Eve? Was Satan given any such responsibility? Not that I know of. The Word only said at this point that he was more subtle than any beast of the field. In other words, he was sneaky and deceptive.

When Adam was created, he was awesome. Anyone who lived for 930 years must have been an amazing specimen.

Last edited by Gideon; 01-26-2010 at 10:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2010, 10:38 AM
willybob's Avatar
willybob willybob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,917
Default

All of Gods creation including Lucifer, (the annointed cherub) was made perfect.

He fell away when the 1st lie was spoken.Prior to that God saw the iniquity in him.

Bill

Last edited by willybob; 01-26-2010 at 10:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-26-2010, 10:40 AM
Gideon Gideon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willybob View Post
All of Gods creation including Lucifer, (the annointed cherub) was made perfect.

They fell away when the 1st lie was spoken.Prior to that God saw the iniquity in him.

Bill
Please provide scripture to support your claim.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-26-2010, 10:54 AM
willybob's Avatar
willybob willybob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,917
Default

GEN ch 1
31 And God saw (((every thing))) that he had made, and, behold, it was (((very good))). And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast (((created all things))), and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Bill

Last edited by willybob; 01-26-2010 at 11:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-26-2010, 10:55 AM
GodleyWorks GodleyWorks is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 174
Default

It's satan himself, Lucifer. Yeah, he was the original worship leader! He is a smooth talker with a great voice.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-26-2010, 11:20 AM
Gideon Gideon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willybob View Post
GEN ch 1
31 And God saw (((every thing))) that he had made, and, behold, it was (((very good))). And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast (((created all things))), and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Bill
Revelations 4:11 supports my position even further, and your application of Genesis 1:31 is not specific. If you understand the general plan and purposes of God, the creation of an adversary in God's eyes is very good. Again, I offer you Isaiah 54:16.

Last edited by Gideon; 01-26-2010 at 11:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-26-2010, 11:34 AM
willybob's Avatar
willybob willybob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,917
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
Revelations 4:11 supports my position even further, and your application of Genesis 1:31 is not specific. If you understand the general plan and purposes of God, the creation of an adversary in God's eyes is very good. Again, I offer you Isaiah 54:16.

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


Well I quess some of the better things he made were good, then again he may have made some mistakes when he said (everything was VERY GOOD) OH and there is always the posability that Satan created himself

Isaiah ch 14

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.


12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (what did he fall from, if he was not the annointed one)


13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;


God did not create any with out the choice of free will, this would be out of balance with scripture. Yes he did create evil, but that is a different subject.


A third of the angels fell with him also.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Why would God judge something that is already evil, there would be no reason to judge him.

He judges because each choose to do iniquity just as Lucifer did. There is no need for God to judge evil itself.


REV CH 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


H3605
כּול כּל o
כּוֹל כּוֹל ‎ kôl kôl
kole, kole
From 3634 properly the whole; hence all, any or every (in the singular only, but often in a plural sense): - (in) all (manner, [ye]), altogether, any (manner), enough, every (one, place, thing), howsoever, as many as, [no-] thing, ought, whatsoever, (the) whole, whoso (-ever).



H3966
מאד
מְאוֹד ‎ me‘ôd
meh-ode‘
From the same as 181 properly vehemence, that is, (with or without preposition) vehemently; by implication wholly, speedily, etc. (often with other words as an intensive or superlative; especially when repeated): - diligently, especially, exceeding (-ly), far, fast, good, great (-ly), X louder and louder, might (-ily, -y), (so) much, quickly, (so) sore, utterly, very (+ much, sore), well.


H2895
טוב
טּוֹב ‎ ṭôb
tobe
A primitive root, to be (transitively do or make) good (or well) in the widest sense: - be (do) better, cheer, be (do, seem) good, (make), goodly, X please, (be, do, go, play) well.

Bill

Last edited by willybob; 01-26-2010 at 12:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.